A very key point here: when someone lands on your webpage, you've got roughly 30 seconds to engage that consumer. How's it going everybody? Ready to talk about something besides Facebook? First and foremost, I want to thank the Affiliate World team, Chad and Nichole, for really having me out here, the opportunity, all that diligent work they put into putting on an amazing conference like this. I mean there's hours and hours and months and months of work for this. So big round of applause for them please.
Alright. Again, my name is Joe Burton. I've been in the Native marketing marketplace for about 15 years now. Got my start working with a company called Pulse 360. Some of you old-timers may remember them back in the early 2000s. I will kind of cover the history behind that in a second, but first and foremost, I absolutely love Native marketing. It's such a different animal than Facebook or Google or display, and it's something that more and more brands I feel need to be engaging with. And I think you're gonna see a tremendous increase in it over the next you know five to 10 years. What is Native marketing really? And this is a Joe Burton definition, so feel free to steal it. Native marketing is really a direct connection between a company and their consumer where they can tell their story.
That's very different than a Facebook ad, that's very different than a Google ad. It allows you to really put your side of the story out about your product or service and tell it in the way that you want the user to see it. Again I want to kind of briefly cover on the Native marketing history. I'm very short on time so I'll fly through this but I think it's important for everyone to understand where it came from, ultimately where it's gonna be going here in the next couple of years. Native was born really from content distribution the early 2000s. What companies like Pulse 360 realised was we could put a simple text-based ad box on publisher sites like MSNBC or Market Watch or the Street, it would allow users to engage with that content. Prior to that, if you want to run display at an MSNBC, you had to call them up, you had to negotiate a CPM rate. They were usually pretty insane, you had to find a sales rep, there was a high minimum commitments, and that's pretty much how it would happen.
We allowed advertisers to start bidding on this platform in an auction-based model being on a major publisher sites, and we saw tremendous performance. Now the reason it survived, was it made new and incremental money back for the publishers they simply weren't seeing in the past. And what I mean by that was MSNBC had their display revenue and all of a sudden there was brand new revenue that they hadn't seen in the past. This is what's carried in Native marketing to be so successful because publishers obviously need to have for their long-term viability.
The next step in native advertising evolution was we added simple images to our text-based ads. We found this created about a 25 to 30% lift into CTRs while not decreasing the conversion rates whatsoever. This obviously made the publishers more money, drove more clicks back to the end result, and helped everybody to see a more profitable campaign. Native marketing today is greatly evolved. Now obviously we see standard inboxes in the bottom of webpages. We see in-feed articles on Yahoo's news feed. We see video ads growing into a content marketing and multiple other facets as well. Every single webpage in the web for the most part, it's got some form of Native marketing on it that creates unlimited and potential scale for advertisers across the board. Facebook and Google are fine, they should continue to be a part of every marketing budget. But as native continues to evolve, more and more people need to understand why they need to be looking at this on a daily basis.
Again simple reasons behind why native should be part of your budget. There is unmatched reach and scale with it. There's billions and billions and billions of impressions available every single day, and in most cases you can get the traffic at a much lower CPC than you're able to get with you know simple Facebook campaigns. Native also is going to push up everything else that you do. You'll see incremental increases in your Facebook performance, you're gonna see your Google campains get better, and you're gonna see ultimately better performance in every facet of your website by doing that. And as the technology continues to evolve with it, layering in things like lookalike audiences and demographic targeting and site targeting, it's only gonna get better from an ROI standpoint.
Native ads are highly engaging, extremely high CTRs, and they offer amazing lift compared to simple branded display ads. And again as this does evolve over time, you're gonna see more and more people start to realise this. The meat and potatoes. We're gonna go over my five key step approach to why and how to build a successful lead gen campaign on Native marketing. Now while we're talking about lead gen today, a lot of this will pertain to ecom products, or list management products, and other things.
But we're gonna focus obviously on lead generation for today. Key number one. Things I think a lot of people don't realize. A good native campaign has got to have a good story behind it. Most important thing about any product is getting your story out there. On Facebook, I've always kind of felt that you're advertising your product and your website, and that's how you get your conversions. With a native campaign, you're actually advertising the story behind your product. This is very evident for me when the mortgage and refinance space from about 2016 to 2018, if anybody here ran US traffic during that time in the native landscape, there is really millions and millions of impressions and bidding for mortgage campaigns. Reason being, there was a government-funded program, called The Heart Program, that basically offer incentives and kickbacks for homeowners to refinance their home loan.
Most people didn't know about this program, so native marketers were able to leverage this program through creative content that drove awareness behind the program, ultimately drove people into the lead forms. This also resulted in very high conversion rates for those leads so the banks and whatnot love the actual traffic. Now interesting point, 2019, that program ended. Since then, the leads and remortgage and refinance have gone down pretty dramatically.
The story is no longer as good as it used to be. Now there's no less homeowners in the US, there's no less demand for refinance leads, but as a story's quality has gone down, so will the conversion rates. We see a lot of great stories built around really selling to the needs of the consumers. Government programs are always great. One of the key points I always use when talking to new clients is, if I have a window replacement company, I could put a simple ad on a webpage that says, sign up here for a quote for free window replacements right.
I may get some leads from that, I may get some people that engage with that content. If I'm looking for replacement windows, I may sign up for that, or I could write three different content pieces about one might be how window replacements can reduce your heating costs by 15%. One might be about how it can increase the home value of your home by 5%, and it won't be a general article about something else. That's gonna create a much more engaging content piece that's gonna drive homeowners into my funnel and convert at a much higher rate and open the door for new potential leads that maybe I didn't even know I needed. Key number two, and this is the one I quite honestly struggle the most with. Writing a compelling ad that will draw in but not mislead your consumer, and not misleading is a very key point here.
With any good native ad in my opinion, your text is what gets your conversion and your images would get your CTR. You need to find a good balancing act between CTR and performance that engages the consumer but does not mislead them. What I mean by that is very simply, if they go to your webpage, they don't like the content behind your ad, they're not gonna sign up for your product, they're gonna be a very poor lead, it's not going to result anything on your back end. We tend to structure our campaigns where we test headlines and one separate environment with various different images. We find our controls then we make adjustments from there.
Key number three, an engaging presale page. This is again where things do differ from your Facebook and your Google strategies. Your presale page is literally your opportunity to sell your consumer about why they should do business with your client. A very key point here, when someone lands on your webpage, you've got roughly 30 seconds to engage that consumer. After about 30 seconds, if they're not engaged to your webpage, they're gonna click out of your box, and you've now lost the opportunity to do business with them. A very key point here is to have a headline that coincides with the actual image headline you're running on your ad. If you're running an ad talking about a government program for solar panels and why they're a great fit, you should mention that same government program within the first paragraph or so of your advertorial.
The next third or so of your advertorial can be more general content, your fluff, and you have to close with a very strong engaging part of your content as well. The end part should have very clear call to actions and you're going to engage the user into the next step in your sales funnel from there. Alright, this is key number four. You have to have a strong native funnel. And again your native funnel will be very different than what you're probably doing elsewhere. I don't consider somebody in my funnel until they've actually clicked off my presale page and are now inside my offer page.
The easiest way we found to get more people converting on my page is to get more people to click off my presale page and to my offer page. A lead form, it's kind of a lead form right. If your lead form converts at let's say 2.5%, you're asking for a name, phone number, email address, or whatever, you can make slight changes to that they get that better, but you're not ultimately going to make a huge dramatic increase on that. It means out of every 100 people that come to that lead form, let's say two and a half people fill that out. Now the interesting thing is, if you can get double the people to click through from your presale page to your offer page, all of a sudden now you've theoretically cut your conversion or your CPA in half by simply having more engaging content. And it's kind of confusing but we can cover it again if you guys have any questions on that. How we do this is again write creative and refreshing content, and are constantly testing and pretesting different advertorials and different flows, until we kind of find that winning secret sauce.
One thing I hear and I talk to a lot of people about this, but we always optimise for engagement first and then conversions second. What that basically means is who is actively engaging with the content behind my webpage, you can do this through Google Analytics, you can do this through some basic click tracking softwares, but who is reading your content and then of course going on to the next part in your sales page Key number five, and I think this is strongly undervalued in our community, is diversifying your portfolio. Another question I ask all new clients is, if your top traffic source were to go down today, how long would you stay in business? That's kind of scary for some people. I know guys who have built multi-million dollar businesses off of just Facebook or just Google or just other traffic sources. If that turns your traffic campaign off tomorrow and you go from a hundred to zero, how long will you survive? We do this even further.
Inside our actual native strategy, we don't even give all of our budget to one ad network. We may break out a $20,000 monthly budget to 25 different ad networks. This creates a very stable environment, where if one network is having a bad day or a bad week or even a bad month, our whole campaign is not gonna go downhill because of it. This sees much more consistent results across much more traffic platforms. So inside of native, there's definitely different tiers of traffic quality. I consider our top tier ad networks companies like Taboola and OutBrain, which are of course now one. Companies like Yahoo, Gemini, I consider Dianomi and TripleLift to be in this tier one.
These are tier one distribution sites and have partners like you know MSN or CNN or Fox News and the likes, and then one of my tier two distribution. I consider this to be companies like RevContent, ContentAD, and so on. There's great value by having these clients or these networks inside your budget but they are a little bit harder to optimise in a simple Taboola campaign. Then we layer it with what we consider to be our tier three traffic and this is companies like AdsKeeper and different push networks and so on. Again amazing scale, tons of traffic, lots of distribution. It's a matter of properly structuring your campaigns, you take advantage of their best sources, and understanding of course that the best source for one campaign may not be the best source for a different campaign and so on. We'll take our budget, we'll break it equally amongst all these different sources, and it helps us see very stable results, and we're always testing to find new networks, and new traffic sources to offer back to our clients.
I think this is really the biggest benefit of all about Native marketing, and this is something that I think a lot of people don't grasp. You have to think outside of day one conversions. And what I mean by that is really pretty simple. With Facebook, with Google, there's immediate call to actions, a lot of your sales are gonna happen the first day you get the initial traffic from it right. With native, it's a very different type of environment. You're actually stopping a user while they're on a webpage, engaging with maybe a sports score or something on the news sections, and you're popping up your article in front of them.
They may not be ready to buy from you that day or give you information for a lead form, but if you at least plant that initial seed. If you structure your campaigns properly, you're gonna see obviously that users convert at some point in time. We see about 20% of our conversions come in post day one click. That's a pretty staggering statistic if you really think about that. And that's usually within the first 30 days, but we see things as high as 60/90 and so on days down the road. And it's really gonna help push up everything else that you're doing. Let's say you're selling a product and you have a content piece written about that product and someone reads that, what's the first thing they're probably gonna do after they read your content piece? They're gonna go to Amazon, they're gonna go to Google, they're gonna type it in, and look for a better deal.
So you planted that seed and while you may not get that conversion for the native click, it may pop up somewhere else down to your funnel. I had a client who we launched about two years ago. We're running a little bit hot in their CPA. They told me to keep things around X they were coming in you know about 50% high. And I had my first status call with them and I was you know honestly pretty nervous about the call because I thought it was gonna you know get reamed out a little bit. He called me up and he was ecstatic.
He told me since we've turned down our content marketing campaign, everything else that he's done has gotten so much better. He can even tell me the hour and the time of day that we would turn on the campaigns based on the initial sales, and he would see his phones would start lighting up, and he would see his Google campaigns get better immediately. And I thought that was a pretty amazing statistic. Here is a typical native funnel on the way most of us advertise things. We've got our native ad, we drive them to a landing page, we drive them to then an offer page, and we hope that they convert on that right. Pretty simple stuff. You can only optimise what you can see and you hope to make improvements on CTR or engagement rate to increase your performance on obviously your landing page and your conversion page. Here's what my native funnel looks like. Every single time a user hits one of my pages, I'm collecting their data is in many possible ways right. I still got my native ad, I'm still drawn them in, but I'm dropping a marketing pixel on their page, I'm dropping a push notification on their page, I'm dropping an audience pixel on their page.
I'm seeing if they want to follow and engage with my social media, and I'm hopefully getting to see a push with my branded content as well. And then if all else fails, I'm going to collect their email address and hopefully we can sell them something down the road. This means even if I lose money, I don't need a buy up front. I can use that data to make money down the road and I take all that data and I bucket into separate sub campaigns for not only the existing clients but also new clients as we sign them on.
We know that I clicked from this user was a homeowner, he was 45 plus, he lived in this certain area. When a new client comes up that maybe matches that exact same demo. We're gonna push that content out to down that really you know a fraction of the cost to it normally it would normally be. This helps us to be immensely profitable on campaigns even if we are losing money on the upfront ad costs for it. Again we talked about this but it's properly monetising every single click as it comes in.
Are you leveraging push notification traffic? Are you getting email submits? Are you collecting that email submit and dropping and a simple drip campaign? I'm amazed at how many people don't use an email follow-up responder series behind their campaigns. To me that baffles my mind. They have all these email addresses sitting in a box somewhere without really any work behind there. That should be free money you're adding on top of everything else that you're doing. Are you also getting your content to engage from a user standpoint? Are you building that audience out? You can do a lot of things the various DSPs out there by building out audience segments based on again user behaviour, understanding the age, affinity, the likes and dislikes, the monetary values behind that. One thing I tell a lot of clients as well. I think most people would agree that remarketing campaigns you run on Facebook are kind of their bread and butter. That's where they see the best ROI and the best performance.
Let's say a Facebook click is maybe costing you a dollar, a dollar fifty, two dollars a click in some cases, a little more now because we're in a busy season. You can probably get that exact same click on native for a fraction of the cost. Dropping a simple remarketing campaign on Facebook and pick up that sales throughout the day. If you do this and do this effectively, it can really help increase your bottom line. If you're basing everything on again that day one conversion, what's happening there, it may not be as easy to you know to see that data coming in, but if you're looking at the entire ecosystem behind things. I think you're really gonna see a big cost benefit behind that. That's kind of the initial questions I had guys.
I was hoping do a lot of Q&A, see what you guys had. Native is different for a lot of people out there, so I think we'll bring out the Q&A session and you can ask anything you may have about you know, are you struggling on native? What kind of questions you may have and so on. Thank you, Joe. That's amazing. Thank you so much. Al right let's take a deep dive. We'll take questions, open up Slido again. You know the jazz. You know how it works. Let's get to it, alright? Okay. What is an average good CTR for presale page and do you measure optimise on time on presale page? Is that English? Yes absolutely, and that's a great question. CTR is going to vary a lot by vertical. Our minimum threshold we shoot for is around 15 to 20% depending on the vertical.
That can go up or down pretty substantially. But we're gonna optimise for a minimum of a 20% for most verticals. Now we've got some presales page as high as 85% or plus. In that case, we do a simple short form usually it's about a paragraph or less almost like a Facebook to be very honest to how it's built out, where it's meant to gauge that users interest and drop them off to that next page in the funnel. The second part of that is 100% absolutely. We use an API to manage all of our native ad buys or vast majority of them. We directly connect that API to our Google Analytics, and we're able to measure time on user page experience, and actually make adjustments based on the site behaviour for that. If we know that an average user from Fox News stays on our page for 13 seconds, an average user from CNN stays on it for 28 seconds, we can automatically increase our bid so it's a higher user intent. Cool alright. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that. I'm super interested in the next one.
How do you actually approach creatives? Do you find yourself always snapping pictures, how do you do that? I'm stealing pictures everyday, all day, everything I can possibly do right. So creatives is, in my opinion, hardest part of the business. I'm not a good copywriter. I will fully admit that. I think honestly one of the lamest things that we can all do is steal somebody else's stuff right. I go into a different you know one of the the ad spying tools out there, ripping someone's content and saying, you know it's mine and pushing it out there. It's also quite honestly why a lot of clients fail. They try to rip the exact same headline and image as a competitor. They try to outbid them for that same placement, and then lose money and wonder why.
You're paying 30% more and you're not as good as that person is at their job right. They're the ones innovating that content so we are constantly testing new angles. We're constantly testing new images until we find our sweet spot, and then were taking those images and headlines, and trying to make them better by constant adjustments, innovations. Alright that's cool. The next question actually fits perfectly to that. The question is how do you actually continuously source a good story right. It's all about the stories. All about the story specifically on native. On a popular topic that might seem hard, how do you do it? We try to stay very topical. What's going on in the news, what's going on in the marketplace right. I mean number one thing is always to sell to a need, if you know there's a certain need for a marketplace you know, we obviously sell to that.
We ask questions from our clients and then use those questions to build our content from. And we start to be very topical for what's actually happening in the current marketplace. If there's an article written currently about something that's very interesting on one of our clients, we may flip that article with some kind of source data and use that for a content piece as well. Cool alright. Next question is, do you actually have an example funnel that you could show? Show is kind of hard but maybe you can lead us through it.
Yeah not my back pocket but we can kind of quickly talk through it. A sample funnel, we will do this for, we'll do this for a home solar. Because that was on the slide show. So home solar was a very big product. They're still a very big lead generation product in the US currently. There's basically a government program that offers some incentives if you put solar panels on your home right. How we may source things is have a simple ad on MSN that may say something along the lines of, government program helps users save money on solar energy. Kind of cool right? I click on that I have a house, I want to save money on my house.
I'll see what they do. We take them to our content piece. Our content piece is going to be a very simple article written about that government program, how its going to reduce your heating cost, or how it's going to save you money, what that program looks like, and then from there we're gonna take them to the offer page. They submit their information. Now here's where we start optimising. We put out one content piece and we see that 15% of people are making it from the presale page to the lead funnel. We want to get that better. We're gonna try different headlines and different images inside that content piece, different you know maybe ad layouts, until they get that 15% to 20% to 30% and so on. What I think's interesting about our industry right, is every time somebody lands on one of our webpages, we have the opportunity to sell them on our service. We can fail 95% of the time and still be profitable. That's interesting. What if you could fail 90% of the time or 85% of the time and so on.
Always trying to get better by making that funnel stronger. Alright cool. Next question, do you have a framework for creating presale pages? You just mentioned them obviously super important. Do you have like a specific template that it could give to people? Yeah we do. We did kind of covered this on slide three or whatever it was. We'll go over it again. Again you have about 30 seconds when somebody hits your presale page to engage that user. The first third of your article has got to be your sexiest point in the article. What's going to drive that user in, why should they engage with your product, what's different between you and someone else in the marketplace right.
Very important. Then the next third again can kind of be your fluffer, your information, your boring stuff, and then you've got to close with a very clear call to action. You want to have enough call to actions on the webpage, hyperlinks. You'll click buttons things like that without overdoing it right. You can bviously layer it with 100 different buttons on there but it's not gonna help your quality whatsoever. There's a lot of different template builders out there. They're pretty innovative. I can actually answer questions about those specifically if you guys have questions. But that helps people that may be your designers to break into native by having a basic template to use against them. The next one. I actually like that question. I like the framing. What's actually the difference between native as an online PR? Not much, believe it or not. And that's actually a goal of my company is to get more brands to embrace the fact that with a native campaign, you can do PR for your company overnight. And more importantly, you control that PR and how it goes out. So with kind of a PR piece, we're getting off on a tangent here but I think it's very interesting you know. You put out a news feed, you hope Yahoo picks it up, you get some distribution on that.
With native you can actually control the sites it shows up on, and design a content piece written just how you want it. And then more importantly, you control the story since you control that traffic source. Right. That's pretty cool. A lot to learn here. Okay, let's do a couple more. I'm super interested, so let's see what comes up. What are the services you are using for retargeting, push, email, and so forth? Give it like a full spectrum if you can. So for retargeting, we do a lot of different things.
We target a lot through different DSP sources. There's a bunch of them out there, Samantha, Centro are a couple for example. We also remarket through Google whenever possible. There's Admiral out there. There's *** out there. A lot of different placements for sure. Also a lot of the different individual networks now offer remarketing. Taboola has remarketing. RevContent got remarketing. Outbrain got remarketing. And they're actually starting to offer and is getting pretty good, audience building, lookalike targeting, just like Facebook can. Upload a thousand email addresses and kind of let it find similar audiences for that. For push we use a bunch of different networks as well. We use Push Nami for one and Propeller. We actually monetise our traffic through a company called One Signal or Push. With them, you can drop users on your page then you can obviously remarket to those users and then market third-party products to them as well.
And then we do a bunch of different ad buys and push traffic sources as well. And emails, it's an internal system we use. It's something we built internally. Alright. How do you keep track of that? It's a lot of work. Like multi-channel on such a broad spectrum is a pain in the f*cking ass to track. I mean I've gone nuts about that. There is no truth right. It's about attribution, how do you do it? It is. What's really hard is when we only control one aspect of a client's business right. Let's say we only run their native stuff. Well we may be running let's say 10% hot on a CPA target you know. They'll complain about that. And he pointed back, how is Google doing this month? We're having a great month actually. Well attribution is not always gonna be that day one conversion right.
It is hard. I consider a good media budget like an ecosystem. Everything feeds off each other. When it's healthy, everything makes everything else a lot better. Attribution is not perfect yet. There's some Google Analytics and things you can do to kind of get a feel for it, but I will admit it's not perfect. We also do some stuff on dedicated domains, but we'll say, hey this domain is only our domain. We'll have only run traffic to this domain, therefore any attribution from that domain theoretically came from an ads we would have done. Cool. Let's take two more questions. Next one, do you see any specific verticals that naturally work with native ads? Again lead gen has been great for us. You know lead gen is probably our bread and butter. We've been doing leads in various verticals for years. Again a story is of course key. But it's a lot of different things. Anything that's you know quick call to actions, email submits, work really well on Native marketing. We do a lot with high end financial products as well.
You know things that may cost a user four or five hundred dollars but there's a very high-end intent behind that as well. And then like anything else health and beauty has always been strong. Really anything that has a strong good story behind it can be a pretty good fit for that. This time of year is also ecom. I mean what's the sexiest toy this summer? What are you advertising for? The newest, coolest gadget. There's a lot of companies out there making a lot of money by doing that. Year round is a little bit tougher. You know advertising a gadget in March or April is not the same as advertising it in December, but it absolutely can do very well. Okay, so how does it actually compare to display? A lot of people say display is dead for good reason. I remember like the first display ad about 2004 actually. I remember those days. Even back then it didn't perform, but anyways. Native is a different story. Yes so it's very different.
I think display is dead or dying right. And I've always asked why wouldn't Ford, for the new Mustang, buy a native content piece on ESPN versus running a 300×250 on the right rail and paying $25/a thousand? To me it makes no sense, but again, it'll get there. Display is kind of being kept alive by brands and agencies that don't quite get it yet, but it's a dying thing. Native is different because again it's an engaging ad and content piece but people know it's an ad, which I think is very interesting. You know people know they're reading an ad, they know there's an ad at the bottom of a page. They still feel compelled to engage with it because of what it is. Native CTRs are like 80% higher than standard display ads.
It's an insane difference between the two and on top of that, the engagement is better and the long-term viability is gonna be a lot better. I mean I haven't even ran a display ad in ten years. That's how I got my start, I did a lot of display advertising back in the day. Alright. Should we take one more? Final question. How do you structure a headline and image tests? I break everything out on my site.
If I'm building a campaign inside Taboola, I have the headline be my control, and only run that headline in that campaign. And I do variations of the images inside that same control. Once I find my winning image, let's say I have an image of a house that's my winning image, I'll take that image and I'll change the image to do a controlled test against that house. I may make it black and white, change the hue, add a lay over, all the different things. Try to get that intent. Now once I have it working, I put it in a box and forget about it.
Let it sit there and start testing something new. One thing I used to make a lot of mistakes early on in my career was I'd mess with it too much. It'd be up, it'd be working, and I'd be like, well I'm gonna put one more ad there to make it a little bit better. And the whole campaign would go to hell, and I'd be like, what the hell happened? Well leave it alone if it's working.
Alright. Well that's experience all of us had I guess. That's important. Thanks for sharing some fails here as well. It was amazing having you here. Thank you, Joe. Thank you guys, appreciate it..